[Suzerain of Sheol]

Originally Posted by Quiet Man Cometh

I'm not really talking natural, just organic. I trust flesh more than metal and plastic at this point. I have an kidney that is not mine already. I'd be perfectly okay if somewhere we managed to create some manner of flesh thread and organ recipe and Dr. Frankenstein a new kidney.

Of course, new ways to open and close skin holes would also be of benefit, too. Not sure if this requires and AI but it might help?

I'm just saying, if I had the choice of getting my eviscerated intestines replaced with a transplant or machine that does the job better, I know which one I'd take every time.

..but I'm filthy transhumanist. >_>

[Quiet Man Cometh]

Originally Posted by Coda

The AI isn't going to invent brand-new laws of physics (unless they do! that would be super interesting!) -- the more likely surprise is going to come by developing a novel way of using things that can subsequently be analyzed to see what you can learn from it. That's how medicine has ALWAYS worked -- we discover molecules with medicinal properties first, then we start researching the pharmacology behind how it does its thing. Going the other way around was a flop -- pharmacologists spent a couple decades doing "rational drug design" and trying to engineer molecules specifically to pursue a hypothesized mechanism of action... it didn't really work any better than the typical method of "let's take this active molecule, swap out parts of it, and see what happens" and it cost a lot more. So an AI doing rational drug design would essentially be creating new base molecules for pharmacologists to study.

My point being that sometimes we start using things before we have that verification. A relative is taking meds right now that the doctors have no idea how it works, just that it does. I assume it's decided at this point, or case by case, that using it anyway is less harm than waiting to figure out what's actually going on.

[Quiet Man Cometh]

Originally Posted by Suzerain of Sheol

I'm just saying, if I had the choice of getting my eviscerated intestines replaced with a transplant or machine that does the job better, I know which one I'd take every time.

..but I'm filthy transhumanist. >_>

Heh. Well, given those options...

But it depends on the situation. My body likes to super-cling to medical equipment so I'd rather avoid the extra bits and pieces if I can. (Images of having to remove a bionic kidney for some reason and the doctors are fighting with system going "NO! It's mine now!"

[Coda]

Originally Posted by Quiet Man Cometh

My point being that sometimes we start using things before we have that verification. A relative is taking meds right now that the doctors have no idea how it works, just that it does. I assume it's decided at this point, or case by case, that using it anyway is less harm than waiting to figure out what's actually going on.

When it comes down to it, we don't know WHY anything works. In the last 50 years we've come a long way into getting more information about HOW things work at a fundamental level, but they've got major shortcomings -- even now we've only got some really vague theories that haven't even been fully ironed out yet to try to explain why gravity acts different from everything else.

AI doesn't change that. It shifts the landscape some, but in the end humans are still going to go on handling it all the same way we always have because that's all we can do. We try our best to understand, but in the meantime we verify that things do what we want them to do. That's how science has always worked.

[Quiet Man Cometh]

Perhaps 'how' rather than 'why?'

[Suzerain of Sheol]

Originally Posted by Coda

When it comes down to it, we don't know WHY anything works. In the last 50 years we've come a long way into getting more information about HOW things work at a fundamental level, but they've got major shortcomings -- even now we've only got some really vague theories that haven't even been fully ironed out yet to try to explain why gravity acts different from everything else.

AI doesn't change that. It shifts the landscape some, but in the end humans are still going to go on handling it all the same way we always have because that's all we can do. We try our best to understand, but in the meantime we verify that things do what we want them to do. That's how science has always worked.

So what you're saying is... no one can judge me for whispering fake Latin at my computer in attempt to appease the Machine Spirit next time it blue screens, right? :P

[Quiet Man Cometh]

Does that work? My internalized rain dance to get Neir: Automata working is still somewhat hit or miss.

[Coda]

I mean, if you can empirically demonstrate that your rain dance has a greater probability of success than the control test where you don't do your rain dance, then sure, I'll accept that.

[Salone]

Derailment: AI is bad, we fear it because we've seen what we've done as the most powerful beings on this planet and the idea we could create something more powerful than us scares us because of what we have done to others and lesser beings. We won't admit to it, but it's there.

Beep. Bloop. Blorp.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

That applies equally to some schools of game-theory on contact with extraterrestrial civilizations. A cost-benefit analysis seems to recommend RKV first, introduce oneself to the ashes of a civilization later in such a scenario, unlikely as it is.

[Quiet Man Cometh]

Originally Posted by Salone

Derailment: AI is bad, we fear it because we've seen what we've done as the most powerful beings on this planet and the idea we could create something more powerful than us scares us because of what we have done to others and lesser beings. We won't admit to it, but it's there.

Beep. Bloop. Blorp.

And AI probably isn't very tasty or easy to digest so we can't go all Chronus and eat them to prevent their inevitable overthrow of our domiance.

But then, Chronus ate a rock.

[Quiet Man Cometh]

New thought!

Here's an excerpt from my posting:

"If we create an AI that can interact with people, how will it influence the people? People anthropomorphize things, and it’s probably not too far to say that a person could develop a friendly “relationship” with a robot based on the appearance of human like traits, even if we know the machine mind is not capable of one. If a person decides an AI personality is significantly important to them, does maintaining that AI become a standard of care for the person’s mental health?"

Yes, I know, movies have done it, but still...

[Espy]

Yes. Example: me.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

The inverse of that question is a dark rabbit hole to go down. I believe you and I discussed mind-crime before, Quiet.

[Quiet Man Cometh]

I decided not to go there.

[Suzerain of Sheol]

Truly shocking. :P